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Warrlac
07-09-2011, 12:46 PM
Chuck Dault (some of you may remember Chuck from SVTOATC) just ordered a 2012 GT500. He and I are having a discussion on the merits of the GT500 over the new Boss 302.

Has anyone here driven a Boss 302? What is the common wisdom regarding the 5.4 SC engine vs. the new Coyote NA?

I like my Terminator, but the Boss 302 is tempting...

Warrlac

sonicx
07-09-2011, 07:27 PM
I haven't driven either but i wouldn't imagine you'd make a bad decision either way. Boss 302 has more room to play with but the GT500 come in coverts (if your into them).

TaLoN
07-09-2011, 11:07 PM
The Boss 302 is stripped down of all the amenities... but at least you can get AC still... :lol:

I already made my choice and I don't think there was any comparison myself. A lot depends on what you are looking for in a car. No doubt the GT500 is the best Mustang available though.

Both have their niche market.

p51mstg
07-10-2011, 10:03 PM
Somewhere in youtube land is a video where one of the major car mags did a closed-course track comparison between the Boss302 and Shelby GT500. I know I saw it, and it wasn't just a dream. Can I find it now???? Um... no.

If I remember correctly, the two were matched up pretty darn well. Where the GT500 could out accelerate the Boss, it couldn't quite keep up with it in the corners. It was close, and I don't remember which won.

I'll keep looking for that video, and will post it if I find it.

Edit:
This might be it, but I'm not sure....
http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/2011-ford-mustang-track-shoot-out.html

LadyCobra
07-11-2011, 07:06 AM
Besides already wanting one badly, I'd have to pick the Boss 302. It just calls to me to get one.

HOWEVER, many points to be made that the 2012 Shelby GT500 may be the last given that Shelby/Ford have no agreement in place (or plans) to continue producing them under the Shelby GT500 badge.

sonicx
07-11-2011, 11:27 AM
If I was to be a betting man, I say that regaurdless of the contract situation.... if you got the money to shipped your Mustang to Vegas, Carroll will transform it as long as he still has a heartbeat. :)

N8's98GT
07-11-2011, 11:44 AM
IMO Boss 302 > GT500 but it depends on the buyer. I think the GT500 looks better than the Boss and if I had to choose a cruiser I'd take the GT500 any day over the Boss.

However, the thought of having a track ready car w/ a N/A engine that redlines at 7500 makes me :drool:

HELLFYR
07-11-2011, 11:59 AM
GT500 is a better power performer, straight away speed, neck braking torque, etc.
The BOSS was designed as a corner carver, particularly the Laguna model. But the standard BOSS inherits
much of the Laguna's suspension as well.

For stop light to stop light drags. The GT500.
For street/road course work, I'd have to go with the BOSS.

Rod

66gtk
07-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Jen,
Boss = no back seat for your kids!

LadyCobra
07-11-2011, 01:48 PM
Jen,
Boss = no back seat for your kids!

That's why we have 3 other vehicles. Wouldn't buy one for a kid hauler!

N8's98GT
07-11-2011, 01:49 PM
^ only the Laguna Seca... standard Boss 302 doesn't have a cage, has rear seats, and an option for the recaro's up front.

p51mstg
07-11-2011, 02:01 PM
^ only the Laguna Seca... standard Boss 302 doesn't have a cage, has rear seats, and an option for the recaro's up front.

"Mom, you missed the apex on that corner and the M3 is gaining on us!"

"Get back in that car seat, young man or I'll stop this car!"

ShadowGT04
07-11-2011, 03:42 PM
^lol. I would have to get a BOSS over the Shelby. I think their are way to many Shelby on the road. I see them everywhere. I'm not saying their not nice but they made too many. I haven't seen a BOSS on the road and only 1 in person I've seen more ferrari's than BOSS.

TaLoN
07-12-2011, 05:44 PM
GT500 is a better power performer, straight away speed, neck braking torque, etc.
The BOSS was designed as a corner carver, particularly the Laguna model. But the standard BOSS inherits
much of the Laguna's suspension as well.

For stop light to stop light drags. The GT500.
For street/road course work, I'd have to go with the BOSS.

Rod
Keep in mind the Shelby beat out the Boss on a road course as well, though the gap wasn't huge. The Shelby also is able to pull a full g on the skid pad, something else the Boss is incapable of.

sonicx
07-12-2011, 09:16 PM
2012 Boss 302

0-60 - 4.0 sec (they mention 3.97)
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.3 sec @ 115.8 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 108 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 0.98 g (avg)

2011 Shelby GT500

0-60 - 4.1 sec
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.35 sec @ 115.75 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 103.83 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 1.01 g

source: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2012_ford_mustang_boss_302_test/index.html


The Boss starts at: $40,310 (stripped) & The GT500 starts at: $48,810 (Coupe-stripped).

These numbers are close to one another on paper. Now, if you buy the BOSS 302 & take the extra 8K and invest it into the Boss. Your gonna have a superior car compared to a stock gt500 spending that extra 8K just to buy it.

Miller
07-13-2011, 09:18 AM
Good luck finding a boss for MSRP. haha. Saw a laguna edition at cars and coffee. It was cool, but I love the looks of the new gt500's. GT500 hands down in my eyes.

HELLFYR
07-13-2011, 11:51 AM
Keep in mind the Shelby beat out the Boss on a road course as well, though the gap wasn't huge. The Shelby also is able to pull a full g on the skid pad, something else the Boss is incapable of.

Yeah, I saw that comparison when it came out...
Comparisons like that are invalid, as 1 lap on a road course is not what a road course is about. That is drag-strip mentality.
Run the comparison for 50 or 100 laps.

That's like saying a stock Honda is faster at the drag strip than a stock GT500 if you run it down the strip, turn left and drive to Duluth and back, without filling the tank with gas along the way.
Not what that type of racing is about.

Rod

HELLFYR
07-13-2011, 11:53 AM
Good luck finding a boss for MSRP. haha. Saw a laguna edition at cars and coffee. It was cool, but I love the looks of the new gt500's. GT500 hands down in my eyes.

Actually MANY BOSS are available for MSRP currently.

Particularly since they announced they will also produce a 2013 BOSS (with some additional color options)... which if we follow the GT500's lead, will likely lead to a 2014...2015...2016... pretty soon BOSS saturation as well. Ford is missing the point of limited production vehicles and value retention.

Rod

66gtk
07-13-2011, 01:34 PM
Actually MANY BOSS are available for MSRP currently.

Particularly since they announced they will also produce a 2013 BOSS (with some additional color options)... which if we follow the GT500's lead, will likely lead to a 2014...2015...2016... pretty soon BOSS saturation as well. Ford is missing the point of limited production vehicles and value retention.

Rod

Ford doesn't have much choice since many dealers typically resort to GREED and excessive ADM - Ford might as well get their share by producing more cars if they continue to allow dealers to do this.

Dazed1
07-13-2011, 05:42 PM
Actually MANY BOSS are available for MSRP currently.

Particularly since they announced they will also produce a 2013 BOSS (with some additional color options)... which if we follow the GT500's lead, will likely lead to a 2014...2015...2016... pretty soon BOSS saturation as well. Ford is missing the point of limited production vehicles and value retention.

Rod

:thatsfunny: All the more reason to own a BULLITT :hehe:

sonicx
07-13-2011, 06:45 PM
The SPEED TV cameras caught a white board showing a whole new selection of colors, with “2013? printed next to photos of the Laguna Seca models. On the list appears to be Grabber Green, Grabber Blue, joining the Performance White, Race Red and Yellow Blaze Tri-Coat that are being offered in 2012. The Laguna Seca models will also be offered in different colors, either black with yellow stripes or white with yellow stripes.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii110/GTBAUM/04-2013-boss-302-colors.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii110/GTBAUM/07-2013-boss-302-colors.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii110/GTBAUM/05-2013-boss-302-colors.jpg

Seriously.... THE BEST COLOR they could have ever matched up.

TaLoN
07-14-2011, 03:54 AM
The Boss starts at: $40,310 (stripped) & The GT500 starts at: $48,810 (Coupe-stripped).

These numbers are close to one another on paper. Now, if you buy the BOSS 302 & take the extra 8K and invest it into the Boss. Your gonna have a superior car compared to a stock gt500 spending that extra 8K just to buy it.

Or you can buy a used GT500 for the same MSRP as the Boss, put in the same amount of Mods and blow both of the stock machines out of the water.

The mods for the GT500 provide more power per dollar compared to the Boss. A simple tune and pulley swap can net you an additional 100HP in the Shelby. To even dream of reaching where the Shelby can get to repetitively cheap, would cost you a LOT more on the Boss. Also, due to issues with the 5.0 engine post Mod... Ford recently announced a TSB voiding all warranty for ANY mods to the engine...

Here's the TSB info... (http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/2011-mustang-talk/133591d1309536718-tsb-tuning-mods-tsb11-07-07.pdf)

The 5.4l engine the Shelby uses can just handle SO MUCH MORE than the 5.0.

sonicx
07-14-2011, 10:50 AM
Or you can buy a used GT500 for the same MSRP as the Boss, put in the same amount of Mods and blow both of the stock machines out of the water.

The mods for the GT500 provide more power per dollar compared to the Boss. A simple tune and pulley swap can net you an additional 100HP in the Shelby. To even dream of reaching where the Shelby can get to repetitively cheap, would cost you a LOT more on the Boss. Also, due to issues with the 5.0 engine post Mod... Ford recently announced a TSB voiding all warranty for ANY mods to the engine...

Here's the TSB info... (http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/2011-mustang-talk/133591d1309536718-tsb-tuning-mods-tsb11-07-07.pdf)

The 5.4l engine the Shelby uses can just handle SO MUCH MORE than the 5.0.

For that to happen, your really going to have to haggle with a dealer. And the majority of people whom the BOSS 302 is geared towards aren't too worried about void warranty.

And I'm quite aware of the 5.4 powER....Hence why I said Boss + a little $$$ = stock GT500 (in terms of power).

Also, I know that the 5.0 can make more power per psi boost manifold but you cannot ever boost the Coyote as much as you can the GT500. The 5.4 L will easily and reliably take over 20 psi boost manifold where the Coyote will start to destroy it self in mid to high teens boost if you do not rebuilb the short block and drop the CR. Also, handlingwise, the GT500 can be upgrade with alot of better suspension parts. You might not Ever get to Boss handling but you will still be able to upgrade to better than GT handling.

But although this is true, the posted test numbers above are very very close in comparison. So to say it's gonna blow it out of the water isn't totally true.

To me, boosting and loading on mods to make you rocket down a quarter mile takes money more than talent. With money, you can take any car and make it faster then snot. Personally, I'd without a doubt rather fly through the twisties. It takes more talent than a deep pocket book to win and the BOSS has a better supension base to start with, not mentioning that the gt500 is a couple hundred pounds heavier (3800 couple gt500 vs 3680 boss).

But this debate can last well past dark even when FORD geared their markets to 2 different classes. Still fun to compare though ;)

N8's98GT
07-14-2011, 11:53 AM
^ I tend to agree Sonic. I LOVE driving in the twisties and from everything I've read the Boss is easier to drive fast and is a very rewarding experience for the driver (similar to a Mazda Miata or Mini Cooper) while most feel like they are manhandling the GT500 around a similar road course. Even if the GT500 offers better race track times, it sounds like it's much more work to get those track times.

Each car has a specific purpose and target audience IMO. Most cruisers who want a bad a** street machine will choose the GT500, while those looking for the ultimate affordable weekend race car will choose the Boss. I really like the idea of having a car with 444 N/A h/p out of a light little high revving N/A 5.0L V-8. The GT500's 5.4L engine is impressive, but to me it seems like old technology. I'd really like to see the next GT500 have a lower C/R version of the Boss engine w/ 600 HP that would be somewhat similar to the engine in the GT350 and a redline north of 7K.

Either way though, it's great to see Ford coming out with such impressive cars. From the V-6 to the GT500 you really can't go wrong with any of the 2012 Mustangs.

TaLoN
07-14-2011, 07:06 PM
If you think the GT500 handles like a bear, you've never driven a GT500 with the SVTPP. Anything BUT a bear when it comes to handling! Easily better than the 5.0 GT, not sure where anyone got the idea that handles better than the GT500.

From insideline.com...

On Track at VIR
To demonstrate the efficacy of the package, Ford turned us loose on Virginia International Raceway in a 2011 Ford Shelby GT500 equipped with the SVT Performance Pack. There, we ran laps back-to-back with a 2010 GT500.

Now, we're fans of the 2010 model, a car which took top honors in not just one comparison test, but also a second. Though its nose-heaviness is something we've come to accept, the 2010 GT500 proved to be out of its element here on this fast, winding road-racing circuit (we managed not to hit the historic tree at the hairpin), feeling sloppier and a lot more vague than we'd have predicted.

The new car with the SVT Pack has a more cohesive array of handling traits. It turns in with more immediacy and less understeer, and the steering itself (much to our surprise) increases in effort in an intuitive way that the former car did not. To be sure, part of the 2011 GT500's sharper nature is due to the SVT Performance Pack's tauter underpinnings and improved tire choice, but there's no denying the effects of removing an entire boat anchor's worth of mass from the nose of the chassis. Such are the benefits of a useful reduction in polar moment of inertia, and it shows; when you turn the wheel, you go.

There's noticeably more grip in the 2011 model, too, and the tire adhesion breaks away more progressively. The 2011 GT500's ability to inspire confidence is the biggest difference between new and old. When you drive the 2010 GT500 hard, it feels like wrestling, while in the 2011 GT500, it's more like dancing.

Yes, in the end it's a matter of taste, I know... but the Shelby GT500 is simply the Muscle car king right now, and there's no denying that. ;)

sonicx
07-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Were not comparing the gt500 to the 5.0. Rather we're comparing the boss to the gt500. And even at that were comparing STOCK TO STOCK packages. But anyone who thinks the gt500 has a better road coarse package the the boss (stock to stock) in the mustang family is naive. If were wanting to throw in an additional packages that one can purchase for their gt500, then its a completly different story for a different thread. But I agree with you talon the package is pretty sweet, no doubt.

FLSTCI71
07-14-2011, 08:04 PM
:thatsfunny: All the more reason to own a BULLITT :hehe:

Or a Saleen. When we were looking a couple of years ago, it was no contest. The Saleen was the winner, hands down. Of course, there was no Boss then and the Saleen is off the table for 2012. Sigh.

TaLoN
07-14-2011, 09:52 PM
In the end, they're all Mustangs... how can you go wrong? ;)

FLSTCI71
07-15-2011, 09:29 PM
In the end, they're all Mustangs... how can you go wrong? ;)

Ding, ding, ding , we have a winner. Well said!!

No1Ford
07-22-2011, 05:43 AM
GT500 hands down!

p51mstg
07-22-2011, 06:45 AM
Order my Mustang with the optional 1650ci Rolls Royce Merlin with 2-stage supercharger and water injection, please.

Fredensborg
07-28-2011, 07:46 PM
Those GT500 are bad ass, but I have a soft spot for Boss's and Mach 1's. Put me down for a Boss.

Mighty Mustang
11-05-2011, 12:35 PM
GT500 for the win...... the supercharge wine just scares people

HELLFYR
11-05-2011, 03:57 PM
Speaking from experience as one who has driven a supercharged car on a road course... it sure would be nice to be able to run for more than 10-15 laps without having heat soak issues... N/A cars FTW on the road course.

Rod

720sonic
11-07-2011, 03:32 PM
Boss 302 then install a supercharger since it already has built up internals. The new 5.0 is more modern also compared to the 5.4 which has been around for decades

sonicx
11-07-2011, 09:23 PM
Boss 302 then install a supercharger since it already has built up internals. The new 5.0 is more modern also compared to the 5.4 which has been around for decades

Agreed times 100000000!
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-54734705425182/boss302-ls-sc.jpg

Brent, check this out: http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/hpe650-boss-302.html :thud:

720sonic
11-09-2011, 08:25 PM
Looks very nice with that supercharger. Would have been even quicker with drag radials. 4v 5.0 FTW

sonicx
11-09-2011, 09:09 PM
However (only speculating) but I'd love to see this as the 2014 GT500:

http://feedmesportscars.com/files/2014mustang.jpg

N8's98GT
11-10-2011, 08:01 AM
I sure hope they don't put that big black gaping mouth on the 2014 car... I hate the way Chrysler and Dodge have done that same treatment to the front of the SRT-8 cars recently, too... otherwise, I love the look :)

ShadowGT04
01-15-2012, 03:56 PM
They didn't make the boss as nice as the Shelby because the Shelby boys would get butt hurt like the corvette boys did with the grand national. I would still rather have a boss over a Shelby.